Leibniz, Liberation Theology, Hiking

Leibniz, Liberation Theology, Hiking:
Philosophy Engaged in the Community

An Interview with Vukoman Milenković

By Aleksandar Anđelović

While hiking in Austrian hills with a student hiking club, I met Vukoman, a theologian and philosopher from Belgrade currently studying in Vienna. Surrounded by greenery, snowy mountains, and vineyards around Vienna, we discussed our research interests – Leibniz, Byzantium, Christianity, Platonism – and wider implications of pursuing philosophical research nowadays. In this interview, Vukoman will tell us more about his current research, main interests, as well as his view on the role of philosophy in the community in general.

About Vukoman Milenković

Vukoman is a theologian and a philosopher. After completing his first MA in Theology from the University of Belgrade, Vukoman is currently enrolled in an MA program in Philosophy at the Central European University in Vienna primarily interested in Leibniz’s philosophy. With several years of experience as a high-school teacher of catechism and as a translator, Vukoman is also interested in social activism, critical pedagogy and informal education, creating “Filozofski Klub”, an educational platform for promotion of philosophy.

The Interview

Aleksandar Anđelović: As you are both a theologian and a philosopher, let’s start with a more general yet crucial question – where do you see the dividing line between the two and why are they separated whatsoever?

Vukoman Milenković: As far as the dividing line goes, in my view, there is no dividing line. That is one of my convictions, namely that all rational inquiries – including science as much as everyday thinking – are methodologically continuous. When it comes to theology and philosophy, they share a common core, which is to investigate the world and discover the truth. It is true, however, that, when one wants to study theology or philosophy at a university, one will study different things. For instance, at a theology department, one will meet people studying original biblical texts or the church canon laws or rituals, whereas at a philosophy department there are people who study ideas and theories developed by philosophers and who try to make as much sense of them as possible. Nevertheless, I take this division to be only conventional, bureaucratic and institutional. In terms of methodology applied, there is nothing that separates good theology from good philosophy. That being said, there are still numerous overlaps in the current academic curricula. For instance, it is impossible to study theology nowadays without spending some time on thinking about, say, early Christian theories of Incarnation, Trinity, creation of the world, and all of these theories are deeply rooted in ancient Greek philosophy. And vice versa – if one studies philosophy, one will encounter e. g. medieval and early modern arguments for the existence of God, the role which God plays in early modern physics, and also some varieties of Christian existentialism. In other words, even in the current division of labor in academia, philosophers and theologians can talk to each other to a considerable degree.

AA: Following up on the previous question, it seems that Leibniz, with his emphasis on universality, is a true example of a polymath educated in both philosophy and theology combining the two. Is that why you are interested primarily in Leibniz and what impresses you the most when it comes to this polymath?

VM: Exactly. To paraphrase Bertrand Russell, Leibniz was the last man in the history of western philosophy who knew everything that could be known and, moreover, the last man for whom that was possible. His polymathy was motivated by his view of human knowledge and the structure of the world. For Leibniz – and this is the core of the enlightenment idea – every reasonable question has an answer and all of the answers are knowable. Moreover, these answers cohere with one another into a big theory of everything. Leibniz was not only working in a variety of fields – and these include mathematics, philosophy, theology, physics, law, history, engineering, etc. – but he was also working on a language and a procedure through which one can actually build a system of knowledge which would unify all of these fields. As I was studying theology and was interested, as all theologians are, in the relationship between theology and other disciplines, I encountered Leibniz and got captured by his vision of universal science. Leibniz was, moreover, a rigorous thinker. He saw mathematics as a paradigm of human knowledge, an aspect of his philosophy that also captured me. I am drawn to theologies and philosophies which are done in this rigorous manner modelled on mathematical logic which seeks to obtain certain and necessary truths.

AA: When we discussed the separation of secular and religious in the public sphere – in our case the relationship between Christianity and politics – it was clear that you are particularly interested in political theology and the impact religious ideas can have on society. You mentioned “liberation theology” as quite an important and, I would say, sensible philosophical concept/movement/idea, yet I have an impression that it is not widespread and not well-known to the wider public. Can you tell us more about “liberation theology”?

VM: Well, the very concept of political theology was developed in the 20th century only. The idea of Christianity having political implications, however, goes all the way back to the Gospels. Hence, when theologians pursue political theology, they basically bring to light those ideas of Christianity which are pertinent to social and political affairs. Liberation theology is thus a sort of political theology and, in my opinion, the most credible one. What liberation theology says, basically, is that God of the Bible is interested in the well-being of his creation, i. e., the God of the Bible is a God who wants to enable his creatures to develop their creative capacities to the fullest, and to do so in community with God and the rest of creation. Yet, in the real world, this will of God gets somehow frustrated in the sense that a lot of people never get to develop and be solidary to other creatures. Now, according to liberation theology, the reason for that is that human societies are built in a sinful way, so there are structural sins implemented in the way we organize our societies. And so, the response of the God of the Bible is to act in creation in a way that will liberate all created beings from captivity to these sinful structures. By extension, the community of God’s people is invited to enact this liberatory project of the biblical God. For any of your readers interested in this, I would suggest starting with a short book by Jose Porfirio Miranda Communism in the Bible (1981/82) – it is something like a manifesto of liberation theology.

AA: What do you think Leibniz would say about liberation theology and can you connect some of his ideas and theories to the notion of philosophy as particularly engaged in social affairs?

VM: This is a vexing question, and that is because Leibniz never developed his political philosophy to the fullest. Still, I would say that there are some strands in his thinking which are in accordance with liberation theology, while at the same time there are some strands which might go against it. I myself have been mostly engaged in studying his metaphysics and philosophy of mathematics, so I do not take myself to be most competent when it comes to these issues. That being said, Leibniz would support liberation theology insofar as it claims to implement universal justice, which is applicable to all human beings. He believed in one universal state of all nations and was an ardent critic of slavery. On the other hand, there are some bits of Leibniz’s diplomatic writings which were written so as to defend the interests of his sponsors. Now, Leibniz never held a university post, he was never an academic, so he was forced to work for royal families as a kind of advisor and a negotiator. In particular, for most of his mature life, he was affiliated with one of the royal families of Hanover (namely Brunswick-Lünenburg), which asked him to act as their advocate in various political affairs. Due to these facts, you will find Leibniz arguing for monarchical powers and claiming that it is good for some humans to have power over other humans, which is, of course, a view heavily opposed to the principles of liberation theology. In short, it is a mixed story. This potential conflict between Leibniz and liberation theology, however, never prompted me to abandon my interests, neither in Leibniz nor in liberation theology.

AA: Last but not least, you are quite invested in promoting philosophy in society, which is the main aim of our magazine and of this section in particular. You believe that teaching philosophy has a huge responsibility in social dynamics and therefore you are engaged in social clubs for teaching philosophy to youth. In addition, you stress the importance of “critical pedagogy” in education. Can you tell us more about your activities in teaching and “critical pedagogy”?

VM: Besides the fact that I was a full-time teacher for the previous three years, I was also working a lot in non-formal education. Together with a couple of my friends-philosophers, we established an educational platform where we used to gather once a week, delivered various kinds of lectures and workshops, and discussed philosophy with high-schoolers. It was a life-changing experience, one that brought me to understanding of the role which education can play in people’s lives. In particular, I was seeing how these abstract philosophical discussions we had with those teenagers deeply influenced the way they observed the world around them and the way in which they were supposed to act in that world. This is one of the core insights of critical pedagogy – that education should be about raising consciousness and empowering. In other words, education is about giving people access to resources through which they can understand the world around them, negotiate this understanding with others, and act so as to transform this world. By getting to know more about critical pedagogy – i. e., by reading sources like Paulo Freire and Peter McLaren – I discovered that a lot of things labeled as “education”, including the official educational system in which I was working as well, is nothing but indoctrination and a means of making students obedient and cynical.

AA: How do you see the future of philosophy in modern school curricula, especially with the need for “final products” in all educational areas?

VM: In the way I see philosophy, studying it should be a part of every curriculum. Where there is need for critical thinking and problem-solving, there is need for philosophy too. Hence, if future schools want to foster independent and creative human agents, they should undoubtedly include philosophy in every single curriculum. Now, I know things do not look that way in the real world, as there is a lot of pressure to exclude even the small amounts of philosophy programs out there. Yet we should be aware that this comes from the fact that most formal education in the world nowadays is not designed to cultivate independent and creative human agents which could connect and act with others, but atomized individuals who believe that nothing can be changed and that the present political-economic system has no alternative.

AA: I think we covered all the issues I wanted to discuss with you in this interview and I am looking forward to hearing more about Leibniz, liberation theology, your research and philosophy today from you. Thank you Vukoman!

VM: Thank you! Keep up the good work. I am really looking forward to having more of these discussions.